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Development Area » Uploads that hurt small indie biz

Pages: 1
Author Thread
flagGoatfather
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95 Posts
#1128 (8 years, 1 month ago)
Hi,

Because nobody reads what is written on the forum I can write what I want. So why not? This time I will complain about that:

I THINK SOMETIMES WE MAY STEAL FROM SMALL COMPANIES THAT
SUPPORT INDEPENDENT, OLD ERA COMPOSERS OR SIMPLY OUR FRIENDS.

What I mean:

When we upload commercial album we may lower its sales. And I am not so sure if we are giving them a friendly hand by "spreading their music". If they wanted their music to be spread they would release it on their web site, wouldn't they? Instead they choose to release:

a) short excerpts
b) just a song or two from the whole album
c) low crappy quality versions that makes music almost totally useless

with an option to buy an album. And they do that for a reason.

THEY DO NOT WANT TO SPREAD THEIR ALBUMS FREELY IN ANY FORM.
(apart from the point "b" - I think it's perfectly fine to spread free tracks, but a note in the info field and/or buy link would be very nice)

So, please, when you see music from someone who you like, respect or you just think the music deserves to be paid - please, please, please - think before uploading their work to a service that allows free replay. We do not help e.g. Xerxes if we upload his commercial albums, and neither Bjorn Lynne needs that kind of help. There are many old musicians who decide to "revisit" their classics, sometimes cooperating with new talents. Small independent game companies release game music to get additional funds. We should support them, even if just by not spreading illegal tracks. Let's not hurt that small niche market.

Let's face it. We are helping ourselves with their quality music, not the other way.

Cheers,
GF

PS. If someone wants to discuss if we help someone or not in specific case, I think there is simple generic procedure:

1. Write an e-mail asking for uploading the album to CVGM
2. If you are scared to send the e-mail, you know the answer. Otherwise - send and wait. It's really easy to contact people who sell their own music.

PS2. I am not talking about abandoned old stuff, music that nobody wants to sell or that was "locked" in some copyright voo-doo like Picq's Spice Opera (good story, look for that on the internet). And it's not about legal aspects, which is hell of a discussion. It's just about being fair to musicians that we all respect and who just try to actively sell their work these days.

PS3. Ah, I forgot. By not uploading this grey-area kind of stuff you also leave more space for supporting humble musicians who want to spread their music freely.
flagGoatfather
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95 Posts
#1129 (8 years, 1 month ago)
Sorry for posting that in wrong forum, I was reading other posts and *kaboom*
flagDarkWolf


6 Posts
#1130 (8 years, 1 month ago)
I don't think we should really start drawing these kinds of lines. Most of the content on the site other than the demo scene stuff is in a grey area. A lot of these games we have soundtracks for still have their copyrights held by someone. Even if they aren't making money off it anymore they are still entitled to protect their "property." And if I'm not mistaken Fish would be willing to take down anything if he was contacted by the owner.

I don't think it would be proper to contact sceners and indie developers about their commercial soundtracks and not do the same for the other commercial stuff here, regardless of its age or availability. If we have to do that, CVGM will become pretty lame.
flagMAT
avatar
Objection!

106 Posts
#1131 (8 years, 1 month ago)
Darkwolf has a point, but so does Goat.

We can't have this site without music, and pretty much any game music is copyrighted. I am new, but I think this kind of thinking split nectarine and cvgm, because nectarine's admin didn't want to use game music which is mostly copyrighted.

If there is some cool soundtrack out there somebody wants, he or she will buy it alright, because here listening is limited to half of the quality of uploaded file and can't play it anytime anywhere. Besides, you can most probably find it for download somewhere on the net, which we don't do... we don't let commercial tracks be downloaded, only listened, like on any radio.

But to help album/ost sales, and not have top notch new released music here, I keep 2 year rule for uploading any tracks... most likely anyone who planned to buy it would get it within the first two years of release, same as buying games, no doubt. If someone thinks we should extend this time period to say 5 years, so be it.

Keep in mind that almost any music (that someone didn't directly ripped from the game) can be found for download at one place or another on the internet and without too much trouble.

However, we do have fade out option and we can make certain tracks that goat mentioned fade out at half of the track or so, thus making it look more like a track sample/preview and not hurting album sales. Though not sure many people would request such tracks, unless they are interested in buying album so they want to hear the preview, but they can rather check stores for that

When I first joined, I wanted to add some newer game OSTs, but Fish told me to be careful when uploading new music that is currently popular or whose games are still selling well and fairly new so we don't attract too much attention. He didn't say don't upload it, just to be careful.

So I drew this 2-year wait plan for myself. I think this is the most logical solution in this case. We may extend this to 5-year wait before upload on some things (like Turrican Anthology when it hits the iTunes store :lol:) or for not so popular titles or songs, it may stay 2 years as I use it.


And PS for goat... regarding Dune: Spice Opera... I remember contacting Picq several years ago asking him of chances to buy this soundtrack, and he told me that this voo-doo lock is for like 30 years or so, so I'm guessing until 2022 it won't be able to get re-released
flagFishGuy876
avatar
FishGuy876 / Brainstorm

445 Posts
#1132 (8 years, 1 month ago)
In the case of goat above, Bjorn did give me permission to upload some tracks from his albums, as did Xerxes. Most of these guys welcome the publicity that it generates from being played, and when people go hunting for download links, it leads them back to their album page where they can get it. There will always be some cheapskate who will try to look for it without paying.

The point is, asking for permission every single time is pointless, and the use that we provide here falls under the "fair use" of the music, its not like we give it to anyone who wants it.

If an artist asks that their music be taken down, we will gladly comply as we have in the past with quite a few artists and tracks.

The grey areas with this are the newer, current consoles that distribute the music as seperate purchases. Its even more a problem when said music can still be bought in a regular retail store. The site should focus on stuff thats no longer available to purchase, so the little guy isn't left out.

Fish
flagGoatfather
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95 Posts
#1136 (8 years, 1 month ago)
DarkWolf, I do not agree with you. I think we should care more about small developers. Simply because their margin is smaller and because money flow is much more fair (supporting developers not licence owners). Many people support indies just because they are indies (e.g. Humble Bundle). It's not lame.

Second, I have a bad feeling that CVGM goes into rapidshare policy where "we can remove it if you ask" is expected to be the final answer. I think declaration of returning something does not free people from responsibility of getting it first without asking.

Anyway, DarkWolf, to show you I respect your point of view and to be free from any doubts I am removing both commercial albums I have uploaded to CVGM. Simply because I would never ask Sony for permission. That probably would sweep CVGM out of this planet.

But still - I am disappointed CVGM prefers to hide from people behind the music.

Regards,
-GF


flagGoatfather
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95 Posts
#1137 (8 years, 1 month ago)
@flagMAT

YAY! 2022! It's not THAT FAR!

Exactly, Picq's music was taken by (IIRC) Virgin and locked in the drawer. He cannot use it, they do not care about that at all. That's why he *winked* on his page about getting this music in a funny way "it's not me of course, but look... there is some guy, and there are some files ;)".

Cheers,
-GF
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