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Development Area » Could any of the platforms below be merged or not?

Pages: 1
Author Thread
flagMAT
avatar
Objection!

106 Posts
#1363 (6 years, 12 months ago)
We have many separations based on hardware used to play the song within the same platform, sometimes it may be okay, sometimes it may be unnecessary.

Can anyone/someone who knows a bit more about the platform in question answer me if we could maybe merge and hence reduce some of the platforms below? Might as well put the comment under song or in the song name for minor differences rather than having two platforms. Hm...

- Apple II Series
- Apple IIgs
= Apple II Series

- Atari ST
- Atari STe
= Atari ST/STe

- MSX
- MSX (Konami SCC)
- MSX TurboR
= MSX (Konami SCC / TurboR)

- PC (Game Blaster / Creative Music System)
- PC (General MIDI)
- PC (Gravis Ultrasound)
- PC (OPL2)
- PC (OPL3)
- PC (Roland LAPC-I)
- PC (MT-32)
- PC (SC-55)
= PC (MIDI playback)

- ZX Spectrum (AY)
- ZX Spectrum (Beeper)
= ZX Spectrum

- Master System (PSG)
- Master System / Sega Mark III (FM)
= Master System (PSG / FM)


Any of these doable?
flagGoatfather
avatar
|____/_/_/_/_/_|

95 Posts
#1364 (6 years, 12 months ago)
You can easily scratch Miscellaneous » Commercial CD , it does not make any sense.

Spread files to:

Computer » ZX Spectrum (AY)
Computer » ZX Spectrum (Beeper)

And merges for PC, ZX Spectrum and Atari ST(e) from above list are completely wrong.

Le Goat
flagStefan_L
avatar
Deleted by request

167 Posts
#1365 (6 years, 12 months ago)
No they are all different sound hardware.

For example Atari:

Atari ST = YM2149
Atari STE = YM2149 + DMA + LMC1992
Atari Falcon = YM2149 + DMA + DSP
flagMAT
avatar
Objection!

106 Posts
#1366 (6 years, 12 months ago)
Goat -- ZX Spectrum Games is from one-two days ago when I started separation process, this platform will be merged back to AY/Beeper as soon as I undo the separation.

I know that all hardware is different, you guys, I was just saying if we could maybe merge some similar into same, like say NDS and NDSi.

Even Nintendo DS music sounds completely different from streaming music that some game features, but we didn't separate that as we did in, say, PC platform.

I'm just saying. For example, we have three different computers, and each has same Roland (MT32, SC55, ...) separation, we could just as well merge those into single platforms, no?

For example:
- PC / PC-9801 / X68000 (MT-32)
- PC / PC-9801 / X68000 (SC-55)

If some game exists on PC, PC-9801 and X68000 with MT-32 support, any upload is okay, but we don;t need all three. Same as we don't upload Xbox 360 music of some game that is uploaded rip from PS3 or Wii.

If not, what do you think about splitting sequenced from streaming music for Nintendo DS, since they are obviously as different as MT-32 from SC-55, if not more?
flagGoatfather
avatar
|____/_/_/_/_/_|

95 Posts
#1367 (6 years, 12 months ago)
BTW,

Computer » Spectrum (Z80 / ULA)
Computer » ZX Spectrum (Beeper)

are EXACTLY THE SAME thing. Same computer, same technology, same audio hardware.

Technically it could (and should) be merged without any problem. I would have
done it long time ago, but Fishy was not very excited about the idea (even though
he said that he was aware of the cloning fact). He simply wanted it to stay.
So it stays.

Le Goat
flagGoatfather
avatar
|____/_/_/_/_/_|

95 Posts
#1368 (6 years, 12 months ago)
As for the Roland hardware, I know it's the same, but MIDI guys somehow really
wanted to separate it. I think they wanted to separate platforms to store more
detailed info about song origin. I would not merge it. Comparison to current gen
consoles is not really good, as you are not going to merge X360 and PS3 even
though they sound exactly the same.

L.G.
flagGoatfather
avatar
|____/_/_/_/_/_|

95 Posts
#1369 (6 years, 12 months ago)
Meesa back,

Rest of issues:

1. I know almost about Nintendo hardware, but does NDSi have any different audio hardware from NDS?
To me NDSi is almost like "spiced up" version of NDS - different screens, added camera. But it shares
almost entirely same audio hardware and software base. But I know very little about this platform,
so I do not advice anything here.

2. I would not separate music because it sounds different (samples used vs no samples,
streamed vs chip, etc.). This info does not belong to platform category. It's technique and - if
someone wants - it could be stored as additional info (e.g. tags - if someone really need
that info - usually it's obvious).

PC music was separated into hardware categories because back in the days hardware defined
sound type. Gravis is completely different chip from Sound Blaster OPL or Roland MT-32 or
General MIDI. That would be major information loss if we discarded that information and mixed
PC music together.

In general, IMHO hardware platform is the best possible first class sorting category. It is a bit
polluted with some wrong choices, but it is more or less still hardware oriented.

3. Yes, General MIDI is weird platform, because this not a real hardware platform. It means that:

It was played on something that could be controlled through MIDI interface

So it holds both simple AMD audio chip or bunch of little Chinese dudes with flutes and ukulele if
they only followed displayed MIDI messages. So, in fact, the only information it brings is that it
was not using any more standard PC hardware.

Fortunately, this group is used by small group of people with MIDI passion and they usually
remember to store hardware type in the song info.

4. Do not try to put things in perfect order. It's impossible. Structure is too simple for that. It was not
built to cover many cases. E.g. "same track belongs to many different platforms" (e.g. X360 and
PS3 sharing the same audio) or platforms forming a tree or using more than one aspect
(in our case hardware where song was used).

Cheers,
Le Goat
flagStefan_L
avatar
Deleted by request

167 Posts
#1370 (6 years, 11 months ago)
"- PC / PC-9801 / X68000 (MT-32)
- PC / PC-9801 / X68000 (SC-55) "

It is ok with me to merge those like mentioned in above quote, but the uploader should specify in the info field what computer system the game was for... or could "source" be used for the same function?

Also "PC (Roland LAPC-I)" could be joined with "PC / PC-9801 / X68000 (MT-32)", and once again the uploader should then specify what computer system the game comes from AND what LA-synth that was used for the recording in the info field.

I don't think General MIDI is a weird platform... it is very logical, but not hardware based. Do not confuse "General MIDI" with "Generic MIDI"... General MIDI is a standard that makes all GM compatible devices to play the music correctly, many MIDI modules was more advanced than the limited GM standard.
It is not suitable to have a platform for each GM device out there (must be hundred of them) so using the "General MIDI" platform is the best option as the games claim GM support. And the uploader should specify wich GM device that was used for the actual recording in the info field.


And if Goatfather is corrct about the (Z80/ULA) and (Beeper) platforms so should they be merged, but first it would be interesting to hear from Fishguy about the subject as he insisted to have both platforms in the past

And "Nintendo DS/DSi" could very well be merged with "Nintendo 3DS"... there is no difference in sound hardware that i know about? So it is like Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200.

The Sega Nomad platform should be removed and merged with Sega Megadrive as it is just a handheld Megadrive... i don't think Fishguy knew about that when he added the platform, it was just that the artist mentioned he did the music on his Nomad or if it was recorded from a Nomad... i don't remember exactly but Nomad was mentioed and there was confusion if it should be a seperate platform
flagMAT
avatar
Objection!

106 Posts
#1372 (6 years, 11 months ago)
Thanks for a lot of useful info.

To Stefan...

I wouldn't want to merge DS/DSi with 3DS because these two are not the same devices. Not really sure about it, but doesn't 3DS just use internal emulator to play DS games? Something like first DS used to play GB/GBC/GBA games, no?

With so much space on 3DS cartridge over DS one, I doubt 3DS uses sequence music at all. Just as nowadays Windows games no longer use MIDI music. Media is big and there is no reason to try and save on space. I don't have 3DS yet, so all my info here might be incorrect, but to me that is completely different generation of handheld and I wouldn't want to merge it anymore than I would merge Xbox / Xbox 360 which was initially merged if you can recall.

As for Nomad, yes, one of the users already said it's the same as Megadrive, and there are no games that are exclusive for Nomad that do not exist for Megadrive. But still, these two are different just as much as PC or PC-9801 or X68000 are with the same MT-32 card. If we merge those Roland computers based on sound card, then we might merge these two as well.

To Le Goat...

You were out of commission for half a year, so you weren't present when I went to renaming platforms and added OST one for all OST music no matter the platform and what not.

However, when I first created the groupings, one of the main group was Hardware, and it had splitting by sound card and such. There was Platform such as "Hardware - Sound Card - Roland MT-32" and there was platform such as "Hardware - Floppy Disk Drive". But some people didn't like the idea and sound card separation ended up renamed under computer platform and stuff like Floppy or ATmega88 chip music ended up under Miscellaneous group.

Goat, I can't help not to at least try to put things in perfect order. I don't like anarchy and I can navigate my way better through and ordered set than a random sequence of whatever is I am trying to navigate through. In other words, I am working just like any basic computer algorithm, I rely on logic, and if there is none, I start defragmenting process

Also, not sure if you were aware of it, but I moved Game CD Audio platform under Computer - PC because pretty much all the songs were there. Other platforms like Sega CD or whatnot can be added under those platform. I also created Console - Amiga CD32 to separate Amiga modules from Amiga CD game music, especially since one is computer and other gaming console (people sometimes put Amiga CD32 under Game CD Audio platform, and sometimes under regular Amiga which is basically just for modules).


Also, I plan to merge PC - custom with PC - Windows other in the nearby future. Both seems to have Windows streaming music, so having game and non-game separate makes no sense to have in this particular case only. If there are any objections here, clearly specify what is different between these two platforms other than one having game music and other non-game music.
flagStefan_L
avatar
Deleted by request

167 Posts
#1373 (6 years, 11 months ago)
Yes Xbox and Xbox 360 might as well be merged, maybe even renamed to "Microsoft Xbox brand" or whatever now when Xbox One is out.

NDS don't support GB or GBC games, only GBA is supported.

About NDS and 3DS... i still think it is the same situation like Xbox and Amiga, they can be merged as there is no change in soundhardware, the newer ones only have a faster CPU wich makes better soundquality possible... both Amiga 500 and 1200 uses 4-channel Paula but i am pretty sure the faster 1200 CPU makes more channels possible if the programmers care about it... as it seems only 4-channels was used anyway on 1200. And as always it is very useful to use the "info" field to say if the game is an 1200 or 500 game.

Another thing, i was gonna say i had merged PC-98 and PC-88 (FM) platforms but i realized later there was no PC-98 (FM) platform So i have renamed the "PC-88 (YM2203)" and "PC-88 (YM2608)" to "PC-88/98 (YM2203)" and PC-88/98 (YM2608)" so the focus is only on the actual soundcards they use as both computers can use either YM2203 or YM2608.
I uploaded a PC-88/98 YM2203 song just so the platform would be listed at platfrom page
flagMAT
avatar
Objection!

106 Posts
#1374 (6 years, 11 months ago)
I don't think we should merge entirely different platforms just because they might sounds the same (Xbox and 360 or 360 and PS3, etc.). Then we would have to input in the song comment from which platform was the game song taken and all. Separation by different platforms should be absolute so people who only want to hear songs from games on specific platforms can easily find them (without the search engine, especially when it's down at least 2 hours per day).

DS and DSi are very similar so it's okay.
Amiga is also very similar, I mean 500, 1200/AGA, 2000, etc.
Amiga is as similar as Windows 95/98/NT/XP/7/8 are so it's okay to have it as single platform.

Amiga CD32 is entirely different platform, and console to boot, hence I wanted it separate (from both Amiga and PC Game CD Audio).

Nice addition with PC-88, just adjusted the icon. The double-icon for platforms is meant so the first icon represents group so someone not familiar with some name can by first icon see if song is from arcade, computer, console, handheld or something else.
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